Mike Duggan and the Trail to Olympic Trail Running

Hey Mike!

Hey!

Can you say a little about yourself and how you came to be one of the main torchbearers for the lets-get-trail-running-into-the-Olympics movement?

Yeah, I’ll give you a little history. So, I’ve run for many years and got into trail running around 2013. I just love it and the community, and I ended up doing some volunteering. In 2017, I came on the Trail Running Association of Queensland (TRAQ) committee and was there until May of this year. I was President for six of those seven years. So, I stepped down this year, and now I’m spending more time on the Trail Running 2032 campaign and working with what is the new Australian Ultra & Trail Runners Association—or AUTRA—as of a couple of weeks ago. AUTRA formed at the AURA AGM—

Wait, what?

[Laughter]

So, AURA is the Australian Ultra Running Association, which has been around for thirty-odd years. We coordinated over the last year and a bit with AURA and a working group from around the country made up of representatives from each state and territory, and we were going through the process of trying to stand up Australia’s first national body for trail running. There’s been some state and territory bodies but never a national body. So, at the AGM a couple of weeks ago, we put forward to the current committee a change of constitution to include trail running and to establish a new entity called the Australian Ultra & Trail Running Association, which would then be the peak organization for both disciplines.

How’d the vote go?

It was almost unanimous. Now that the constitution is being changed through a legal process, we’re updating the name and branding, etc. 

Cool.

So, now we’ve got a peak body in the country, which I call checkpoint one in our journey towards getting trail running into the Brisbane 2032 Olympics. 

Dumb question: why isn’t trail running already part of the Olympics?

That’s a great question. I think there are a couple of reasons. One: It probably didn’t have the critical mass or governance structure that would support it being put forward as a sport worthy of the games. 

So, the IOC really takes into consideration a sport's popularity, right? Obviously.

Absolutely, and the governance around it. So, trail running has iTRA, the International Trail Running Association, but that wasn’t really recognized as a global peak body that would have representation to the IOC. But that’s changed. World Athletics is now very much a supporter of iTRA, and iTRA actually sits within World Athletics—as does the World Mountain Running Association—and they’ve become quite supportive of seeing trail running accepted because they’ve seen the growth

Trail running is going crazy, isn’t it?

It’s one of the fastest-growing sports in the athletics field anywhere in the world! So I think they’re seeing it as a real opportunity, and therefore iTRA now has a working group which I chair, and we’re now going to be pushing for it at a global level as well. 

Amazing. I imagine you’re up against a few other sports vying for inclusion?

Absolutely. There’s everything from pickleball to lacrosse to NFL football; you name it, they’re all posturing. In Los Angeles, there’s going to be lacrosse and NFL football.

Gridiron?

Gridiron. 

In 2028?

Yeah, they’ll be the two nominated at the Olympics.

Exhibition sports, though, right?

Right. 

And that’s the road to inclusion. I remember when skateboarding was an exhibition sport at the Olympics and now it’s a regular feature.

Correct.

I feel like there’s some similarities between the skateboarding and trail running communities in that they both come from a grassroots, DIY background, and for a long time no one gave them much notice. 

Right, that’s true.

And I remember when skateboarding was headed for the Olympics, there was a bit of pushback from skaters who didn’t want to see their thing brought into that arena, which is fair enough, I think. But have any hardcore trail runners been resistant to the Olympic bid?

We haven’t seen it yet, but I’m sure we’ll get some pushback. Really, what the message has been is this: Don’t in any way, shape, or form start to compromise the values that make trail running what trail running is. Some great research came out of skateboarding’s pathway to the Olympics; they started going down a track that the community wasn’t favorable of, and they eventually changed back when they realized the unique aspects of skateboarding were going to be compromised. And they put that to the IOC and said, ‘Look, we’ve got to maintain the natural way that skateboarding has evolved,’ which is important in terms of its legacy, and from what the research tells us, the committee said, ‘Okay, well you guys are the sport of the future so we’ll bend a bit to make sure you keep those values.’

Right, right.

And we’re seeing the same thing with trail running. So, you’re exactly right—there is a real parallel there.

I’m interested to know how trail running will be standardized for the Olympics. Like, how will you qualify given the varying terrains of different races? Marathons—give or take a hill or two—are pretty standard compared to trail races. Every trail race is a really different animal... Do you know what I’m saying?

Yeah, I do, and that’s a question that comes up all the time. So, if you can picture it, the hybrid of how we’re going to have to approach it would be between skateboarding, as a youthful sport, and mountain biking. Because mountain biking doesn’t have the grading of the tricks—like you have in diving, say—what mountain biking is doing is going down the track of ensuring they have a qualifying standard track, which has to be quite controlled. Probably the closest thing we have globally right now is mountain running, where you’ve got a gradient, you’ve got a distance, and you’ve got competitors going against a particular time.

Okay.

So, there’ll be something in the middle that fits for trail running. 

How long has trail running been trying to get into the Olympics?

There’s been pushes for it probably for the last ten years, from what I understand; particularly with the iTRA people who have been around a long time. There’s kind of been little pushes around the world for it, but nothing has really risen to the heights of a global campaign. Right now, we have the timing, the growth of the sport, and the governance structure, so there are a few things that are coming together to make it a real prospect. And interest from peak organizations like World Athletics changes things—that and brands, actually. 

Brands?

Yeah, brands are looking at it, peak bodies are looking at it, and the growth is just incredible across the world. The dominoes are starting to line up.

So, for Brisbane 2032, where will the races be held? 

Another great question. 

Thank you.

The easy answer is probably at a location that is already being used for another purpose. And to be a little less cryptic, there’s a brand-new mountain biking facility being developed up on the Sunshine Coast called Parklands, which will be designed specifically as an outdoor stadium to hold mountain biking at the Olympics in 2032. Now, there would definitely be a case, and there have been discussions around ensuring that it isn’t a single-sport venue but a multi-sport venue, so there’s the possibility that you could co-locate—depending on the terrain and how it's designed—you could co-locate and have a dedicated natural stadium for those types of outdoor sports. 

Cool. Any other prospects?

Other prospects, well, we’ve got the absolutely fantastic trails of Mount Coot close to Brisbane; we’ve got beautiful locations on the Gold Coast in the hinterland—

Oh, it’s gorgeous up there.

Yeah! And they already run very significant races there. So, there’s a lot of different terrain, it’s just a question of what will fit the Olympic requirements, you know, for global audiences, adjudication, safety, spectators, etcetera, etcetera. It’s going to take a little bit of work, but hey, we’ll get there.

What’s the race breakdown gonna be in terms of distances?

I think it’ll be around the half-marathon type distance.

Yep.

I think you’ll see a pretty fast race. But then maybe a bit longer? If you take a look at some of the races in the Golden Trail Series, that’s some of the best examples of what’s done in the world mountain and trail running championships. So, that kind of vertical, short, but not so short that they don’t test the competitors... A little bit further than what would be a cross-country race, for example.

What are the challenges of covering trail racing at the Olympics for a home audience?

Well, I think the challenges around that are now gone. For example, this weekend and the following weekend, there are two races—Broken Arrow in the Palisades in Olympic Valley, and the following weekend is Western States—and for both of those, the coverage is highly professional. It’s outsourced to a private media company, and it’s quite incredible; you’ve got helicopters, drones, cameramen trailing advanced runners around the course; it’s quite a spectacle. And it’s big business now.

Okay, here’s a great question: If getting trail running into the Olympics meant another sport had to be kicked out of the Olympics, what sport would you pick?

[Laughter]

Oh, my gosh. I don’t know if I can pick on a single sport because that’s a great way to paint a target on your back.

Okay, I’ll do it for you. The answer is Dressage. 

[Laughter]

Well, some sports in the Olympics have a brilliant legacy, and you don’t want to take away from the history they’ve created, but they’re just not sports that people engage with. I think the sports that will be the future of the Olympics will align with multiple generations, multiple age brackets—

Of course. 

But it’s interesting in our sport, the growth of trail running for women over 40 is phenomenal. It’s one of the biggest areas—particularly in ultra running. 

Really?

Yeah! Absolutely. We’re seeing phenomenal growth with women aged 35 to 50. And I think the right sports to go into the Olympics are the ones that appeal to a wide audience and are accessible; like, you just need a pair of shoes and a trail, and you’re out there. You don’t need a horse.

[Laughter]

Right, right. It’s not like everyone can go curling.

[Laughter]

Exactly. That’s exactly right.

Okay, so 2028 is when our readers can expect to hear whether trail running got in or not?

The objective is to be able to announce that by the Los Angeles Olympics, yes. So, that’s a four-year goal, which sounds like a long time, but it’s really not. Announcing at Los Angeles is a major checkpoint, but between now and then a few things have to happen. One is that the easiest pathway through is to be auspiced by the global peak body, and that’s World Athletics, so we’ve gotta work with them, and if we can work with them successfully—and they’re keen to progress that case—then the pathway is much smoother and much more realistic to get into the Olympics for 2032.

And like I said, we’ve now got a national body in Australia for 2032, and we need that national body so we can speak directly to Athletics Australia. A number of things have to occur globally through the support of things like ATRA, and that’s everything from an officiating program to a judging program. And coaching as well, that’s the other one: Yes, there are levels one, two, three coach, but there needs to be some specific discipline, for which they do have a pilot training course here in Australia that’s around trail and ultra running. So, we need those kinds of things to grow and get down over the next four-plus years.

And as you said, four years seems like a long time, but it really isn’t. 

It really isn’t at all. If you go to trailrunning.org.au there’s a landing page for the campaign featuring a timeline of milestones.

Perfect. And how can readers help support the effort?

They can reach out to me at iTRA at any time and voice their support. We’ve got a local campaign team and a national campaign team coming together with iTRA’s campaign team, and that’s probably the main thing, you know, jumping on Facebook, Instagram, and reaching out and saying, ‘I’d love to be involved.’

So, if you want to get involved, you can definitely get involved.

Yeah, we’re always looking for people to help out. 

Brisbane 2032. Can’t wait.

It’s gonna be good!